I ran across this picture the other day:
http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/gallery/album44/aaz_023

And so now I'd in the midst of redoing the breastplate I had started so long ago. I was attempting a german 'gothic' piece but messed up on the neck and shoulder bits.

I was wondering if there has been any actual sets found where the brig was attached to just the upper edge of the plackard or instead a whole brig being worn with a plackard over it?

I rememember Chef had once told me that the English had a ordance(?) against cloth covered armor but am wondering about the feasibility of just mocking up an upper brig section and attaching it to my plackard. I "play" 1430 English in the SCA.

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Originally posted by Thomas Willoughby:
Hello all,

I ran across this picture the other day:
http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/gallery/album44/aaz_023

And so now I'd in the midst of redoing the breastplate I had started so long ago. I was attempting a german 'gothic' piece but messed up on the neck and shoulder bits.

I was wondering if there has been any actual sets found where the brig was attached to just the upper edge of the plackard or instead a whole brig being worn with a plackard over it?

I rememember Chef had once told me that the English had a ordance(?) against cloth covered armor but am wondering about the feasibility of just mocking up an upper brig section and attaching it to my plackard. I "play" 1430 English in the SCA.

Thanks for any input..

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Hi Thomas,

There is a mid to last quarter of the 15th century covered breastplate in a museum in Florence (The Sibbert, I think) - as far as I know, it is the only one. There is a first quarter of the 15th century one that is entirely covered exant in Germany somewhere.

Covered armours were at one time, and in certain places commonplace - as you note from the Louis de Gruthuse Froissart image you post a link to , and other Flemish illuminations of the era, and we have a very late 15th century will where they are inventoried in Northern Italy, but survivors are extremely rare.

I would say from the particular picture you link to, what is being shown is a full harness that has a covered breast and backplate, imitative of brigandine work, due to the uncovered patrs being a full set of placart, faulds, and tassts, which I have said numerous times I do not believe a brigandine could properly support.

A brigandine de joute, although it has a solid breastplate has the rest in brigandine work there are two extant examples, one in the Polish Army museum, and one in Berlin that I am aware of could support it, because of the solid breastplate - but if you replace the brigandine work over the abdomen to hemline with a solid plackart and set of faulds and tassets, what you have is a full harness - not a brigandine.

I have come across one piece of documentary evidence for a seperate placart - most likely intended to be worn with a brigandine. This is listed amongst the personal possession of John Howard, as he set out on the 1481 naval expedition to Scotland. He had a full white harness and bykocket, multiple brigandines, several plain sallets and two 'garnished with gold', and a lonely plackart amongst his list of armour, so most likely the plakart was intended to go with one of the brigandines. I have seem one Flemish illumination where what was indisputably being worn, and what could clearly be seen (you could see how it was strapped on), and if I were to try a speculative reconstruction, that is what I would do.

The current brigandine I have in it's planning stages will carry the staples for a lance rest, and have a detatching lance rest, and it will be made with the intent to have a plackart strap over it. Once I get the brigandine done, I'll ship it off to Patrick have have him make a speculative reconstruction of such a plackart to go with that specific brigandine. Then I will test it on horseback, with a lance, and see how practical the arrangement is.

The ordanance you refer to is I think EdwardIII, (Or possibly Richard II), forbiding the sale of covered helmets and armours, due to the common practise of selling worn-out or poor quality ones, hiding the fact under the covers. An easy place to find it is in the appendix of Ffoulkes, where he copies verbatim a number of ordinances of the armourers guild of London.

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Looking at more paintings I see what you mean about covered breasts. I had been wondering about the rivet lines on some of them. And some showed metal faulds and tassets while others with scalloped cloth so I was just getting more confused.

Since I've stripped the failed sections down to the plackard I've the option of going sevaral ways now. But I am starting to lean more to the idea of my plackard over brig idea instead of full covered breast. I have a pile of box nails from another project so it may be a good time to put them to use.

I guess after I get all this worked out I'll try to start on a Coventry sallet and bevor.