I haven't come across any extant examples from armour, but was hoping that others may know of extant examples that were for non military use. We know from sculpture what the chains look like and should be able to find equivalent surviving examples.

Also, has anyone reproduced authentic 14th century chain based on extant examples. I would be very interested to know this was done and what the end result was like?

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Alan, Lancasters Armourie doesn't have any chains listed on their web site or armour with chains, only jack "chains", but that is something totally different.
The web site you link to is not there.

Bob, the chains for use in the fireplace do seem to be too crude, and also too heavy, when compared with the armour chains. I wonder if the assembly technique was the same.
Are any of the examples from The Museum of London clearly dated to the 14th century, or at least close to it?
You mention that every second 'ring' was joined by a metal joining piece that was closed after assembly. Just like mail, but with less finess.
Were these 'joiners' closed with rivets? Any idea on how the 'solid' links were made?

I forget where I got this keeper chain from. This may be more what you are looking for.

Here you can see I have replicated the chain using two needle nosed pliers and twisting (free hand) brass wire of appropriate size.

I imagine in the 14thc, the craftsman would have used a jig and pliers as this would be more economical and cost effective.

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Can you see any evidence of the method used to construct those other chains? Are there any rivets or other closing method?

N.B. the bottom chain has links that are 2 1/4 inches long. Not all pictures are to scale.

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The centre wrapped type certainly seems to have been made in an 's' shape, although this can't be seen in the plain type. The links of most chains depicted on effigies don't touch in the middle, and thus can't be made using the 's' shape, but must be either looped and welded or cut from a single piece of rod as has been suggested in a certain paper(forget the reference) on making solid mail rings.

Does anyone know of a paper concerning chain construction methods or a person who may be worth contacting? Alan Williams comes to mind, but he may concentrate on armour. A blacksmith with a knowledge of 14th century techniques would be ideal.

Thanks,

Erik

Woodcrafter, I couldn't find a book with the ISBN number you gave. Is this the book you refer to?
Egan, Geoff Medieval Finds From Excavations in London: 6, The Medieval Household, Daily Living c. 1150-c. 1450 Museum of London: 1998. ISBN: 0-11-290490-4

Armour from the Battle of Whisby is a large book, and may contain breast chains. I shall look into it when I return home.

As for blacksmithing rings, I doubt highly they would have been cut out of rod to be pre-rounded. I have had some informal training with the Island Blacksmith Association. You definitely count hammerstrokes, attempting to do the job with the least strokes. Blacksmithing is a two man job at the least, chain should be three. Hot links will be joined to the chain and then welded shut. So you need one to hold the chain, one to swing the hammer and the smith to position the link and punch. I dont believe they would have riveted the links closed for a chain.

If a fellow could afford the breastplate and sword, he may very well wish to have a fancy chain as well. I also do not see this as a wide spread fashion. Personally I always wanted to do this myself, but failed to get around to it. I certainly wish you luck!

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Woodcrafter, it really sounds like it's a good book to get hold of.

I have the Wisby book. Alas, it contains no chains. Lots of buckles though

OK. So the chains are likely forge welded. I can do that, maybe. I make my solid mail links like that, so I'll see if I can scale it up.
The effigies show pretty ordinary looking chain, so if they wanted something fancy it may have meant gilding the links. I'll have to keep an eye out for that on the ms miniatures.

The fashion was relatively short lived, about 80-100 years in Germanic areas. It was also common in Northern Italy and made it's way into Scandinavia, England and parts of Eastern Europe as far as I have been able to find out.

I just looked at my copy of Whisby and yes, alot of buckles. Also of the approx 1185 bodies, the average height of all was 168.7cm, percentage below age 20 were 22%, above age 35 was 14% with the majority at 64% between the two. Even though not all the pelvises were in good enough shape to determine, but the remaining pelvises show that 5% of the warriors were female, that is to say about 63 women fought. Coming from one town, I am sure they knew who was who.

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Originally posted by Woodcrafter:
Yes, I did not believe it lasted very long. I have normally seen plain chain, but was stating that it would make sense to spiff up the chains if you had the money.

I just looked at my copy of Whisby and yes, alot of buckles. Also of the approx 1185 bodies, the average height of all was 168.7cm, percentage below age 20 were 22%, above age 35 was 14% with the majority at 64% between the two. Even though not all the pelvises were in good enough shape to determine, but the remaining pelvises show that 5% of the warriors were female, that is to say about 63 women fought. Coming from one town, I am sure they knew who was who.

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It is an enormous assumption that the number of women in the pit (which is a matter of debate and dispute in forensic circles to my understanding, the thought being that they are likely older children being out there. Thordmans methodology of examination was extremely primitive, and disruptive to the skeletal remains as the excavation proceeded) means that the women were 'warriors' or 'soldiers', or actively fought in any way. The Swiss had a tradition of young women accompanying armies as nurses and support personel, with almost no evidence they were actively engaged in combat - this could be a similar example. It is highly probable that these could be civilian victims of massacre, who happened to be outside the walls when the Danish host arrived.

Just because they are in a mass grave does not automaticaly make them combatants.

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I used to be a member of the Vancouver Island Blacksmith Association. During my informal training, it was pointed out there is a book worth getting. This book shows how to forge rings and various chains. It is about four pages starting on 230.

_The Art of Blacksmithing_ by Alex W. Bealer ISBN 0-7858-0395-5 (note this is the ISBN number and not the bar code which is what I originally gave for the Household book, above )

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I atually came across a basic tutorial on the web, an aspect of which dealt with making chain links. The technique was a real leap in my approach to it. I had a go at it but found that I just couldn't get the wire hot enough to weld. After doing some research I found that I could get the temperature I need, still using the propane gas, by making a mini forge (Basically an insulated container). So I am up to the stage now of getting myself out to look for some high temperature insulation matting, but have been sidetracked with mail making of late.

I will post any progress, hopefully soon.

To weld with coal, we used a trick. Instead of lumps, we dug down to the bottom of the barrel where all the fine coal dust has settled. And at FRH, that is all they supplied as it was cheapest. We used a large coffee can to scoop it up, and with the can full of fine coal, we filled it up with water. Makes a great mess this does. Lay your fire as normal, starter (paper), thumb sized coal. Once it is going, build a forging 'oven' with a lump of wood the size you need for the interior of your 'oven'. Place the lump of wood ontop of your fire, quickly scoop out the thoroughly wet coal and pile it on top. Pack this down into a dome over the piece of wood. Keep the fire burning until the lump of wood is burnt away. Leave a small hole in the side of this 'oven' to place in your rings. This hole is easy if you leave the end of the piece of wood sticking out. If smoke starts on the coal, add more water with a sprinkler. (small soup can with holes in the bottom) Air is tricky, too much and you carbon the metal, too little and you rob the fire. The skill in blacksmithing is indeed tending the fire so that it is just right. Very slowly raise the temperature of your metal to white hot and then single strike the weld shut. As fast as you can pull the rings out of the oven, they get struck into a chain. Wrought iron does not need flux, our modern steel requires flux at red heat and a top up of flux just prior to white.

The book says to stand a rod in the pricket hole, to form the chain links around. Scarf the ends so the join will be smooth. Normally blacksmithing is a two person job, the smith places the metal and the assistant strikes. With chain, you need a third to hold the weight of the chain.

Charcoal needs a deeper fire. I doubt an oven can be made with charcoal in this way. However I have seen what looks like small beehive brick ovens for forging in manuscripts. No I do not have a reference. Basically they look the same as a bread oven, a pile of bricks to retain the heat. This is something that I want to experiment with in the future. I know Mark made one in clay, small enough to be portable. It was used for jewelry work.

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The mini gas forge I intend to make is simply a metal pipe, closed at one end and lined with insulation matting. My normal gas torch will be used as the heat source, either blowing in through a hole in the side or from the front opening.
It need only be large enough to take a link at a time, so the insulation shouldn't be too costly. I already have the metal I need.

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What is 'expanded metal'?

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Wrought iron does not need flux, our modern steel requires flux at red heat and a top up of flux just prior to white.

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Modern steel doesn't necessarily need to be fluxed either. As you pointed out earlier "The skill in blacksmithing is indeed tending the fire so that it is just right."

Flux simply keeps oxygen and other "contaminants" from creating scale in the weld zone. It doesn't matter what metal you're using (mild steel, high carbon steel, or wrought iron), as long was the weld faces are clean while at welding temp you're good to go. That said, that state isn't necessarily easy to achieve, so many people use flux when welding anything. It just makes life easier.

Depending on the size of the links you're working with you MAY have difficulty reaching welding temps with your propane forge setup.

Lastly, while Bealer's "Art of Blacksmithing" is a classic, many of the techniques and admonishments he gives are for REAL wrought iron. If you're using real wrought iron his book gives fatastic advice. If, like most of us, you'll be using mild steel I highly recommend "The New Edge of the Anvil" by Jack Andrews instead.

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