I am trying to find out how prevalent mail was in the late 15th to early 16th century. Especially in Germany. As I said on the AA I have seen pictures showing a 16th century German pikeman(?) with full mail hose complete with codpiece. The only plate he is wearing consists of a breast and backplate with plate arm defenses. There is also mail under the arms as well. He is also wearing a mail bevor(?) topped with a sallet.

Could this drawing be bogus? The look is very sweet. I thought that mail went out of use in regards to covering such large areas of the body around the 14th century.

Is there any way you can post this picture, or a link to this picture? It is hard to tell if a picture is from a historical source, or a later 19th century picture from a description.

Mail use, at least amongst footsoldiers was frequent into the first decades of the 16th century. I have actually seen photos of one mail 'bevor', which I believe is in the collection of Churburg castle. That said, I doubt at this time full leggings or chausses of mail. Mounted men at arms used plate legs - they are more efficiant at defence than mail one. Mail chaussed would be probably more trouble than they were worth to an infantryman.

I should warn you, this board is slow on weekends, but gets active Monday mornings.

I am sure someone else will post an answer or two to this question this week.

[ 10-28-2001: Message edited by: chef de chambre ]

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A friend of mine told me to talk to Erik Schmid about his, so I did and he is the one who showed me the pic. Here is the link. I would like to eventually get something like this, but the price is just a tad steep.

I was wrong about the date. It is late 15th century not 16th. He said it was from something called the Thun sketchbook. Have you heard of this and if so where could I get a copy?

I took a long hard look at that pic - Wow! What an interesting picture.

It does indeed seem to be a actual picture from time and place, I just don't know how to interpret some of what I am seeing. As a for instance, looking at the leggings themselves, I find it hart to tell from the picture wheter they completely encase the leg, or whether they cover the front only - sort of a pair of 'arming hose' with attatched mail.

I am dubious about the area around the crotch, how it seems to just be an extension of the legs. I would think what the artist may have been trying to interpret was a pair of mail arming shorts worn in conjuction with the legs.

The bevor is very interesting too - The photo I have seen of one is quite bevor shaped, and for it to have worked , it would obviously have to have been sewn to a padded foundation chin guard - that is probably what is going on here.

The armour lookes very Italianite in construction (that is the most compact tailed visored sallet I have ever seen depicted - I don't think I've seen a surviving one quite so compact. The plate could also be South German.

You might find what I am saying a little confusing - it is very 'gothic' looking, but you will note there is no indication of points on the couters, and no belt round the front of the cuirasse, so it seems to me if it is a detailed depiction, the artist is showing armour that is put together in the Italian export facshion, but obviously decorated for a German clientel.

I think the artist may well have been unfamiliar with some of the nitty-gritty details of what he was looking at, but has depicted the subject true to what he was seeing. The cuirasse is for mounted service, as it has the lance rest.

I think what we nay be looking at is a normal harness that has bits left off specificaly for foot combat. If the mail is very fine, and it only covers the front of the leg, perhaps it allows a greater freedom of movement. I know the mail 'bevor' probably does. I would have doubted that article except I have seen a photo of one.

The fellow though from the detail of the plate harness is most likely a man at arms, wearing his harness with these funky adaptions for foot combat. It can't have been a wildly popular rig, as this is the first time I've seen this sort of getup in art of the period in question.

I haven't heard of that particular book. To give fair warning, facsimilie prints from the 19th and early 20th centuries (thats when the intrest in things Medieval was in full bloom amongst the wealthy members of European and American society) tend to be very expensive. From multiple hundreds to multiple thousands of dollars.

Hope this helps. Hopefully we can get others commentary on this.

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It looks as though the leggings have a seam up the inner side of the leg. Perhaps they are simply a pair of brayettes with long legs.